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Witness Name:
Exhibits: None
Dated: 15 March 2022
THE POST OFFICE HORIZON INQUIRY
FIRST WITNESS STATEMENT OF MI
WILL SAY as follows:
INTRODUCTION
1. I am grateful to the Chair to be invited to provide a “human impact” statement,
concerning the physical, psychological, emotional, reputational and financial
consequences to me and my family of being held responsible for shortfalls shown by
the Horizon IT system and Post Office Limited’s actions toward me and my family.
The initial paragraphs below provide a brief summary of my background, and provide
context to the detail of the human impact of the Horizon scandal on me and my
family. This statement does not reflect a full account of my experiences or those of
my family and if necessary or required I will provide further witness statement
evidence.
BACKGROUND
2, lam 65 years old. I live i _lwith my wife! GRO iwe like it here.I GR )}
I have two sons who have both moved out of the village.
3. We live in a large property in the centre of the village. It is a nice location.
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4. When I was younger, my family owned a toilet roll company and I was the managing
director. We supplied institutional paper We employed
30 odd people.
5. I also owned a}_ GRO “I business. I had two shops when I was in my 20’s. I was used
to driving around in good cars.
6. I could see when things had changed in the business industry. I have always been in
usiness and went t
7. ind I met her in London when she was visiting England. I was
nd I kept in touch wit! { so I went to visit her whilst I was in
8 I came back to the UK and around 1981 I went back to! ind got married to
tas I still had money from selling
i and set up a life there for 20
9. dealership for a couple of years.
10. 4] dealership for 12 years. This was a
prestigious position. Being a sales manager, I always had a brand new, GRO to drive
and my wife always had a good car. We had lots of money from my job and were
able to live in good neighbourhood. It was a comfortable and enjoyable life.
11. With the car dealership, I would be working on the weekend and for long hours. This
meant that I could not see my sons.
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I owned my own{_ GRO” icompany. I loved my! GRO} company,
it was brilliant. I got in the newspapers for my work, which I liked. It is important for
me to be recognised.
I got a good offer on thi company and I sold i parent had
died and we wanted to move out of as it was getting too big, too fast
and we did not have anything keeping us anymore.
I got a good price for our property int GRO ithis enabled us to buy the post office
and home in the UK.
Our children were getting to the age where in the neighbourhood public schools in
the school district where we lived were very bad, and so we would have had to pay
for an expensive private school. However, the quality of education in the private
schools were poor.
At the time, my sister and her husband were looking at buying a post office. The post
office that my sister was looking at would provide us with a place to live, an income,
decent schools for my children and my family would be nearby as my mum and dad
lived close to the post office.
My sister was looking at thi Post Office and another one in
however, she wanted the post office. My sister and I used to talk that it
post office and we bought the
would be great if she bought the}
place and at the time everything seemed totally right. We were fed up of the
I weather, the summers were long and hot. We had looked at places in
nd so we decided why not give England a try. We were
younger at the time and it seemed like an adventure.
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19,
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22.
23,
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My wife had worked as an insurance broker for a few years and we thought there
was not much difference with that and running a post office. It made sense for us to
take on the post office.
Post Office Limited sold the post office to us. We were doing interviews with online
i GRO lit felt historic and like a big deal. It made the papers
and this made it all seem even more exciting.
I was familiar with the village as it was 5 miles from where I was born. I had friends in
the village.
When we took over the post office in the village, GRO and I had already been in the
newspapers and our pictures were in the papers. We felt like rock and roll stars.
Our neighbours had a welcoming for us in the village. The villagers regarded the post
office as their post office. Everybody was good to us.
Prestige and recognition is important to me. I was used that when I was in
and I expected to continue experiencing it when I bought the post office.
: GRO ' family owned their own insurance brokerage as such we were used to mixing
with certain people.
I am grammar school educated and my school instilled in to work hard. I always had
that mind-set in me. I had done well in school.
I had always run substantial businesses and I was used to managing multiple
employees, so I thought that running a quaint village post office would be simple and
‘lis dog eat dog, however, I wanted to get
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29,
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out of that environment as I did not want my children growing up in that
environment.I GR anted a change as well.
We thought the post office would be something nice and gentle to walk into. We
though that with the post office, I would not have to fire people or make sales
targets.
I once made national Sunday news in the travel section in every newspaper in
I was also critic for the local newspaper. I enjoyed that. We were quite
well known.
At the time, the Post Office was prestigious and being a subpostmaster was
prestigious. After our experience, and after our first six months in the post office, my
sister decided not to buy her own post office.
I thought I would be running the post office until my retirement and that I would be
able to retire early. I thought that if I could keep improving the business, as I have in
the past, the post office business would be worth more. I even thought we would
buy a couple more post offices.
I was a Subpostmaster o’ r
" a ERO
There was so much to take in and learn. The previous owner and subpostmaster had
made the post office seem dead easy with no problems. He said to me ‘ just run it
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when I feel like it, my wife is in the kitchen looking after the grandkids’. This was not
true, the post office required constant attention.
I did not work on the post office counter for my last 2-3 years at the post office due
to an accident where I shattered my left ankle and could not put any weight on it.
My wife was running the counter on a daily basis, although I still carried out the
balances and management of the post office. I would go behind the counter
s I liked talking to customers. I had formed close relationships with
business customers, for example EBay customers.
I operated a retail business from the premises, selling greetings cards, stationery and
pocket money toys. This business only made around £500/600 per week. I employed
two to three part time staff for the post office. These staff worked behind the
counter.
When the Post Office got rid of the monthly child benefits, the mothers and children
were no longer buying toys. The kids used to look forward to coming to the post
office and it was a good income for us.
When we bought the post office, Post Office Ltd knew the government were
planning on taking away child benefits. They never made us aware of that. One day,
a customer brought in a letter that they would no longer be able to collect benefits
in cash from the Post Office.
This came as a total shock. I thought this was not right, as the Post Office knew we
would lose this business shortly but they did not let us plan for it. The Post Office Ltd
betrayed us right from the beginning. The Post Office told me ‘it’s not us it’s the
government's decision’. This happened 18 months after I took over the post office.
We lost around 100 customers in 6 months. I felt betrayed by the Post Office. We
bought the post office in good faith. I was not a union man, we had to pay to join the
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meeting. The Union was a bunch of old postmasters and they would say ‘if it weren’t
for us it would be worse’. From early days I did not have much faith in the union,
42. I started renting DVDs/videos for an extra income. It ended up replacing sales for
toys.
TRAINING AND SUPPORT
43. When we first bought the post office in Horizon had not yet been rolled
out to our branch; Horizon was introduced in the November 2000.
44, At this time, Horizon was very basic. All that Horizon really did was replace the
desktop calculators. It just meant that instead of using manual spreadsheets, you
recoded everything through the system. However, many of the processes were still
done manually, for example pensions and benefits.
45. I had one day of Post Office training in a hotel somewhere in outer Leeds and three
days training with a Post Office instructor who came into my branch.
46. The Post Office trainers came with a lot of manuals which were too complicated to
read. I was very conversant with computers, having used them since the 1970s, but
even I found the manuals complicated.
47. The Horizon system itself was crude and basic. I used to produce video tapes with
step by step instructions, however, what came with the Horizon system was folders
upon folders of instructions from the Post Office, there was no way that I could train
my staff using those instructions. They were overly complicated and already obsolete
when we got them. I used to give my staff work books.
48, The Post Office computer was slow and subject to crashing.
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I remember leaving the training feeling that the trainers were inadequate, as when I
had to pass along the knowledge to my wife and staff it was impossible. I could only
teach them by standing over them, whilst still learning myself to some extent.
I could only train my wife and staff on the Horizon system by going through it one on
one.
When "Horizon 2" was introduced, we had a few hours of training at a hotel. My wife
attended the training as well as all my staff. We came away from the training more
confused; the Post Office trainers were not qualified to be trainers.
In general, it seemed that the Regional Network Managers, who were not "trainers",
but they were more on hand to help than the trainers were. The Regional Network
Managers did not know any more than the subpostmaster did, but they would try
and help as a favour.
The whole training program was flawed and inadequate.
We had a Post Office trainer attend the branch for the first three weeks after I
bought the post office branch. He told me that he was surprised the Post Office
would sell a post office with this volume of business to someone with no experience,
like myself. He was an ex Crown Office counter clerk. We later became personal
friends after he came to work for me when I shattered my ankle.
I would be up until 1 am on a Wednesday to get the figure on the Horizon system to
balance, as I had to get the system to balance to 0. I was looking forward to the
Horizon system so I did not have to do manual system balancing system. I thought
the computer system would make balancing easier, and it did until errors cropped
up. I would be up until 4 am looking for the missing money.
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It was so difficult training people on the Horizon system, it would be 6-9 months
before I could leave staff on their own.
HELPLINE
56. I was calling the Helpline every week, sometimes more than 5 times in one day, with
regard to problems relating to alleged shortfalls and /or balancing.
57. I only called the Helpline if I had a problem.
58. Every time I called, I would get a different advisor and a different solution to my
problem, which usually was not right.
59. Overall, I had negative experiences with the Helpline. They could create more
problems than they could solve for me.
60. It was like phoning a call centre, being transferred, being put on hold and then the
operatives were going through a script and would say “is it plugged in", "is it dusty’.
The Helpline was manned by inexperienced call centre people, not technicians.
61. I sometimes would give up in despair. We would have queues down the street, three
counters working, and so I could not be rebooting the system and still keep my
customers happy. I would be looking at 20-45 minutes to reboot the system.
62. As I mentioned, the Helpline could actually make situations worse. I could have a loss
and the Helpline would actually make the loss double by giving me the wrong
information about the accounting processes that they told me to follow, this did not
make sense.
63. The calls would end with ‘it should work itself out’, ‘see how you get on’. This was not
an adequate response, I needed a solution.
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64, It was software problems not hardware.
SHORTFALLS
65. In this section, I set out in very brief detail my experience of shortfalls arising from
deficiencies in the Horizon IT System, and Post Office Limited’s actions as a result.
This is only a brief introduction to those matters, in order to provide necessary
context for the explanation of the human impact which follows.
66. I estimate that throughout my position in the branch, I paid, or the Post Office
deducted, many thousands of pounds. The Post Office took the money out of my
salary because I had less cash because, prior to them deducting the money, I had
been paying the shortfalls off.
67. The shortfall amounts varied; often there were shortfalls of, £10, £20, £30, £40, £50
etc, over the 16 years of my tenure. I paid back the money myself out of money I
took from the retail side of my business. I kept a cash box behind the counter and
the money came out of there.
68. I paid back the alleged shortfalls myself and balanced the accounts. I expected the
amounts to come back as credits but they never did.
69. Sometimes the discrepancy in the morning would be different to what it had been
the previous night; when I turned on the system the next morning the discrepancy
had increased. I knew something was wrong because this could not be possible. It
made me question whether someone had accessed my system overnight or whether
it was a software issue that lost the money.
70. I knew it was not me causing the discrepancy to increase because you cannot steal
money from yourself.
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71. The Post Office always said that only I had access to the system.
72. I had a few shortfalls over £100. The Post Office would not let me pay these
shortfalls back by deducting from my salary, so I paid those shortfalls with my credit
card. By this time, I was behind on my gas and electric bills and behind on revenue. I
had to pay people in cash, as I was unable to work due to accident. We did the best
that we could.
73s I had a shortfall of £1,200 and another of £2,500. The alleged shortfalls were
revealed on balance nights. I paid the shortfalls in full using my own money. I
checked back through my record and transaction history.
74, I called the Helpline when these large shortfalls appeared.
75. Normally, when the amounts were large I paid by cheque or settled centrally and the
money was deducted at source from my salary. In respect of the £1,200 and the
£2,500, I paid this back monthly from my salary.
76. I expected the large shortfall amounts to come back as transaction corrections but
they never did. I was not able to go back through the system to check, so it was not
possible for me to do my own audit. I could not run a transaction log.
77. I have spent hours looking at rolls of paper trying to find what could be a mistake.
78. I would be up until 1 am or 4 am looking for discrepancies but I could not find the
alleged shortfalls, as the system was designed so that you could not find them.
AUDIT AND INVESTIGATION
79. The audits were always done on a Thursday morning.
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80. The auditors were ex Crown Post Office workers. They were not proper qualified
auditors.
81. I had a few audits over my time in the branch but they were always fine and had no
problems. I was only picked up on small things during the audits, such as keeping
keys in the safe.
82. I requested audits when I had large shortages, as I wanted the Post Office to find the
alleged shortfall because I could not find it. However, Post Office Ltd were not
prepared to do an audit. Post Office Ltd said to me that I would have to pay for an
audit if I wanted one.
83. I would get letters from the Post Office asking whether any of my staff had made a
large purchase or gone on a holiday recently. This made me question my staff.
84, My relationship with one of the sales managers had turned nasty and on one
occasion, five auditors turned up at my post office fully expecting to shut me down
following a shortfall. I had to borrowed money from my dad to pay the shortfall and
the auditors were more shocked to find that I had balanced the system and there
was nothing that they could physically do and so they left my branch.
85. I have seen no reports of any investigation.
SUSPENSION AND TERMINATION
86. I was not suspended by the Post Office. My branch was closed down by the Network
Transformation.
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87. My post office was changed to a Post Office Local located within a Londis shop. I was
paid £105,000 as compensation for the Network Transformation, based on my best
26 months of business out of the last three years.
88. I feared that I would be terminated by the Post Office every Thursday morning. I
would always look through the door on a Thursday to see if anyone was there
following my balance on a Wednesday. I would balance weekly.
89. On the Thursday after the trading period, it was always in the back of my mind that
two men in suits could be at my post office and terminate me before I did any
transactions if my balance report was not zero.
CIVIL AND CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS
90. The Post Office did not pursue civil or criminal proceedings against me for the
recovery of the alleged shortfalls.
91. The Post Office had told me that if I did not pay back the shortfalls, I could be subject
to prosecution. This played on my mind, as sometimes it was a struggle to pay the
money. I had to borrow money to keep trading and to pay my staff.
LOSSES
92. I was led to believe that I had no alternative but to pay the shortfalls. Based on
average losses of around £20 a week over a 16 year period I estimate that I could
well have repaid shortfalls in excess of £25,000. This is based on a low estimate.
93. I lost value in the business. I paid £200,000 for the purchase of the Post Office
business and I paid around £2,500 for the purchase of stock.
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If it were not for the events that occurred, my future plans in my role was to keep
the business until my retirement, with the income maintained at a decent level,
before selling the business. However, I was forced into closure.
We had marketed the business for sale at £425,000 in or around 2009 and I had
expected it to sell around that level because we had parties interested in acquiring
the business at that time. Due to the network transformation scheme being
introduced shortly after, this made a sale less viable. I wish I had sold the business at
me more.
The Post Office income was originally £65,000 before costs per annum and around
the time the post office was closed down by the Network Transformation Scheme,
the annual income was around £30,000 before costs. The retail side generated £125
profit a week on average.
The business declined and was operating at a loss for a significant period of time. We
had to take out loans to keep the business going and pay wages to the value of
around £20,000.
Eventually the branch was closed and I received compensation of £105,000 under
the Network Transformation scheme; I had to pay tax on this figure. The Post Office
strung this process out for two years. By the end, I had had enough and said to my
wife that we should take what we can.
Three years prior, I had agreed to sell the post office to the Londis owner for
£145,000 because he wanted it for the footfall but he withdrew his offer. At this
time, the Post Office said that we were eligible for the Network Transformation
Scheme. This put massive stress on us, as we could not carry on losing money.
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100. The longer the Post Office dragged it on the less my pay out was. I found this
payment (£105,000) to be an insult and did not consider this amount to be enough. I
would have no pension either.
101. I had to go into debt because if I was not still trading, the Post Office would not give
me compensation.
102. In addition, I understand that I was entitled to 16 years of holiday / substitution
allowance but I was never made aware of this by the Post Office prior to selling the
post office.
103. Despite requesting a copy of my contract by telephone, I was told that Post Office
Ltd could not send me a copy of my contract and I was never provided with one.
104. The community feels let down that "their" post office, which was the jewel of the
village, has now gone. I was involved in the community and I used to draw the
Christmas raffle. A lot of the pensioners were in tears when the post office moved as
going to the post office was their life. The post office was a community; that was one
of the things that attracted us to it in the first place. It was prestigious.
105. I felt, and still feel, personally damaged by Post Office Ltd, which is not easy for me
to say because I do not like to admit that I have weaknesses. rammar school
instilled in me not to back down, and I feel that the Post Office got one up on me.
106. In later years, the Post Office cut basic salaries and in my last two years at the post
office, my wife and I did not take any wages out ourselves.
107. I had to take out loans to prop the post office up and the shortages certainly played
a part in that as they put a further strain on an already diminishing business.
108.
pension but I had to cash
that in after my problems with the Horizon IT system started. I also had to cash in
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ension before it could mature. I had to collect my government
pension early.
109. GRO! and I also bought stocks for our pensions. I ended up selling our stocks to pay
for the shortfalls. I wish I still had those stocks.
110. I am now driving a 15 year old car, whereas I was used to driving new cars and I
enjoyed driving new cars. We used to take nice holidays and have nice things. I
worked hard for my lifestyle. I am no longer able to afford lifestyle we used to live.
111. Because of the Post Office we lost two good members of staff. The Post Office told
us we could not employ one of our employees because they were suspected of theft,
we now do not believe that to the case. We believe the loss was caused by the
Horizon system and not the employee.
HUMAN IMPACT
112. I suffered serious problems with the Horizon system, including large shortfalls. I
sought help from the Post Office, who were not forthcoming. Instead, I was the
subject of audits on numerous occasions without warning. I was compelled to make
payments of £25,000 to the Post Office. However, my losses were greater.
113. Although I received a small settlement from the JFSA [Bates & Orrs v Post Office Ltd]
proceedings, I have now come to realise that this settlement was nowhere near
enough to even come close to what I actually lost. I came close to losing everything.
Even today I have debts that I am still paying off and emotional scars from which my
wife and family will never recover.
114. At first I was able to pay the shortfall losses from my own funds, however, I then had
to go into credit card debt and finally I had to refinance my property to pay the alleged
shortfalls.
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115. I also cashed in a decent pension plan.
116. I sold all the! “Ishares I had in blue chip companies. My wife and I had
intended to keep these long term. I find it frustrating to think what those shares
could have been now as selling those shares need not have happened and should
not have happened.
117. I sold an individual retirement account, which was not due to mature until I was 67
years old. I had to pay a penalty to cash in early and I also paid income tax.
When my wife found out that I had sold the account, she was upset but my back was
against the wall and I needed money quick.
118. My broken ankle severely limited me in what I could do.
119. Amongst the kids growing up, we had some good times so I try to forget the bad
times; the drunken fights with my wife
threatening to leave, me saying we are
going to call it a day. I do not want to remember those times and ruin the good
times.
120. I am still paying off debts and I still owe £3,300 on my credit card, I owe £6,000
towards Inland Revenue and £13,000 for my mortgage. I should not have even had a
mortgage at this point. Due to my debts I cannot claim my full pension. This is all due
to Post Office Ltd and the alleged shortfalls.
121. Aside from financially being affected when I was alleged to be responsible for the
shortfalls, I blamed myself for accounting mistakes.
122. I suspected my staff, which was an idea always put forward by the Post Office in
letters when discrepancies occurred. I was in an emotionally fragile situation and
when the Post Office kept suggesting my staff were to blame, I thought about it and
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questioned my staff. The Post Office made me step in the wrong direction and clouded
my judgement.
123. We lived in a village and gossip about my post office spread and became personal. My
wife was receiving threats on a Facebook group chat.
124. The emotional damage continues. There was a rumour that the Post Office closed my
branch because we stole money and committed fraud.
125. When the weather is nice I sit on the door of the shop, as I still live at the property,
and certain people will not talk to me or will look the other way. I am a person that
likes to be liked by people and I believe in live and let live.
126. I am not a judgemental person. I believe that if you live your life fairly and treat other
people fairly then you should get that in turn. I am not ruthless.
127. We did everything we could to keep the post office open, however, I do not think
people realised that.
128.
and I do not socialise very much now, we used to socialise a lot. We used to be
iclub but we are not members anymore.
129. My home phone rings everyday with people calling for the post office. This is a
constant reminder for me of what I went through with Post Office Limited. I have
discussed getting rid of the phone many a time; I only keep the phone for my mum
be able to contact us.
and dad and for friends and relatives int GR
130. The Post Office was meant to stop the calls coming to my home when we transferred
the post office, however, this has never been taken care of. We also still have two Post
Office safes that were meant to be removed.
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All the Post Office managers that promised to organise the removal of the safes and
disconnecting the Post Office phone lines have disappeared. When I call the Post
Office to get rid of the safes or have the phone number changed, they do not sort it
out. This bothers me, as it’s a constant reminder of what I went through.
Getting daily calls annoys and frustrates me, as I do not want anything to do with the
Post Office anymore.
People sometimes show up at our back door to post stuff as our home is still listed as
the Post Office, this does affect us.
The Post Office box is still outside the front of the building even though the post
office is no longer there.
The alleged shortfalls had disastrous effects upon my relationships.
I moved my wife and two young sons from! GRO I ‘o buy a dream lifestyle and
business in a lovely village i hat would be close to my parents and
sister.
I was the affluent postmaster with a decent property, a lovely family and a nice car. I
was the pillar of the community. I
I was sold a dream by the Post Office which turned into a nightmare. Post Office Ltd
lied to me the whole time.
A month after running the post office I knew we had made a big mistake.
The post office was hard work and we were not spending enough time with our
children, as the work hours were longer than 9 am — 5.30 pm.
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141. The Post Office expected more from us than they let on and we had sales targets that
we had to meet.
142. Post Office Limited had an attitude that it was us (postmasters) and them; and that
Post Office Ltd were the superiors. I decided to make the best of it and stick it out as
we were promised from the Post Office that things were getting better.
143. The previous owner encouraged me to buy the post office and inflated the income. A
lot of expenses were not made clear to us, for example, the fact that upon the
introduction of Horizon certain income streams would be lost.
144. I was computer literate but I knew from the introduction of the Horizon system that it
was an inadequate system. The computer system itself was 10 years obsolete. We
could live with those issues at the time and we were a happy family; the children had
settled in well in school and my family were pleased.
145. When the alleged losses first started to appear, they were mainly small, less than one
hundred pounds. The Post Office were useless in their support of us, with managers
often making the situation worse.
146. The NFSP were absolutely rubbish, they said many things but did nothing. The
meetings were old boys’ club type meetings. The meetings were nothing of substance
and not worth going to. The members were very cliquey and we were not accepted
well.
147. The Union would say they would take care of problems but would not sort anything
out and I would have to pay the money. The Union were of no use to us. I cannot think
of anything the Union did for me that was to my benefit.
148. I would question the Horizon system at Union meetings. This did not go down well,
people would not listen to me and so I stopped going to meetings.
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149. As the years went by, I had to put on a happy face and keep making the losses good,
whilst all the time I was blaming myself, my wife and staff. I never thought that it was
Horizon causing the losses. I blamed myself because I was in charge, it was my ship
and I was the captain.
150. I was also led to believe I was the only one having problems with the Horizon system
by the Union, Post Office Limited and the helpline. Having lost all faith in the NFSP, I
had little contact with other subpostmasters and so I believed that I was the only one
with issues. When I questioned the Post Office if anyone else was having problems, I
was always told no. I thought that if it was only me, then it must be my fault. I was
made to feel isolated by the Post Office.
151. The effects of the alleged shortfalls were almost disastrous. By 2007 I had enough.
152. I had tried to sell the post office twice. The first sale was thwarted by Post Office Ltd
management, mainly because it was to an Asian family and I was told that the Post
Office wanted me to stay. is a predominately white area. I think that the
Asian family would have been the perfect fit. My line manager said to me “you’re
staying and that is it’.
153. The second sale was also to an Asian man. Both were good families and would have
been ideal. I know the second man’s uncle, who ran a post office. He was told by other
subpostmasters how bad things were getting so he pulled out. I am glad he pulled out
because Post Office Ltd would have walked all over him.
154. Owning a post office business was now getting a bad reputation so future sales were
off, as I could not sell such a business in good faith to other families to end up like us.
155. Due to the stresses of the post office and the alleged shortfalls, my wife and I would
sometimes drink too much. It put me in hospital because I was drinking and taking
tramadol for my ankle pain at the same time.
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)and I would then argue when we were drinking and we would say things we did
not mean. We no longer drink for the sake of it; we now only drink socially.
157. My sister and I used to be close and we had a business together. However, my sister
and I argued more due to the pressure and stress from the alleged shortfalls, and it
caused a lot of problems and we not really on speaking terms anymore.
158. This had a negative effect on my elderly parents, and it still has an impact because my
parents and sister knew we were drinking too much because of the stresses from Post
Office Ltd and arguments and hurtful words were exchanged because we did not want
159. Both my parents are old school, they have been part of the church all their lives. I did
not want my parents to worry or to admit to them that I was a failure. My parents
now know everything that has happened.
160.' GRO land I both ended up on anti-depressants for a while. Things were so stressful for
a couple of years.
161. I now have Diverticulitis caused by stress, which I believe was from the Post Office.
162. I had no communication with other postmasters and this made me feel isolated as a
lot of the people we knew in Post Office Ltd when we started running our branch had
gotten out.
163. At that time, the Post Office were aggressive with moving traditional post offices away
because of the new Horizon system. The Post Office wanted new subpostmasters as
new people would fit in better than those who had been used to manual systems.
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164. The Post Office put unreal sales targets on you, if you met them Post Office Limited
increased the bar. They got rid of the sales managers that we knew so we had no
personal contact with Post Office Ltd.
165. Word spread in the village when we fell out with some of our staff because Post Office
Limited made us suspicious of them. Before the problems with the post office, we
were viewed as the nicest couple in the village. The community said we were cruel.
We were no longer asked to open the church gala or organise the pensioners’ days.
166. My shop window was smashed and it was expensive to fix. Our boys were at home
when the window smashed and my eldest son was scared. We did not feel safe in our
own home.
167. My parents suffered as they heard people at church slagging us off, saying there is no
smoke without fire.
168. My children lost friends. The whole thing escalated to where no one trusted us.
169. I had to get multiple jobs and refinance the property.
170. Once you get a bad name in a village, gaining respect again is almost impossible.
171. and I are still here, but both my children have moved out of the village and my
parents do not visit anymore, they used to visit every Friday.
172. We took the Post Office closure program, but they strung the relocation on for so long
the payment was much less.
173. Today we are once again ok. We have both quit drinking and my family is good ‘GR
and I both still having to work, my wife is working part time [
to the benevolence of the owner who knows the truth about the Post Office. My wife
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is 71 and does not qualify for state pension. I would have thought that by now we
both would have been enjoying a good retired life.
174. We are still in debt but the Inland Revenue have been good with us. I shattered my
ankle about 10 years ago and the subsequent surgeries have not gone well, the last
one being a year ago. As a result, I am only able to work part time at an antique
auction and selling on eBay. Occasionally I pick up and deliver turbo chargers for cars. I
should be able to get the minimum state pension next year.
175. The village is ok with us now, but some friendships cannot be renewed, so we still do
not really socialise that much. We do not go to the cricket anymore, whereas we used
to do that socially. We do not go to the constitutional club anymore, we used to go
once a week.
176. I was in the JFSA lawsuit which turned out to be a joke in the end. Freeths took our
money. In a way I wish I had not gotten involved with the lawsuit. I want it now to be
over and for water to be under the bridge.
177. We should have been comfortably retired by now. However, we are not, all because
twenty or so years ago we decided we would buy a lifestyle business in a quiet village
so our children would have a good future away from the fast
life and we would be with our family.
178. We are bitter, all because of a crappy computer system, but most of all by the
mistreatment and lies of the unscrupulous Post Office Ltd management.
179. It is amazing that my wife and I are still together.I GRO often said to me that she
would move back ta
180. I feel like I should have been there more for my sons. We could not take our children
on holiday as we could not get people to cover the post office.
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CONCLUSION
181. We are still struggling financially and we have to be very careful with our money as
we have a mortgage on our house and we are still paying debts off. I have to make
£1,200 a month to live. We should have been retired now and comfortably living off
pensions that we had to cash in, I think those pensions now would have been about
£2,000 a month each.
182. In many ways the nightmare of buying a post office is still very much with us in my
mind.
183. Oland I are both still working. We have not been able to buy our children houses
and I am driving an old car.
184. I worry that if anything happened to us how would we cope. I think peace of mind is
a very important part of life and we don’t have it at the moment.
185. With the Post Office it was always us and them, it was two different worlds. We
were almost a nuisance to Post Office Ltd.
186. My post office got broken into and we were closed for a week as the burglars did a
lot of damage. However, we got no sympathy from Post Office Ltd, they just left us
to it. I told the Post Office that we needed a new door, however, when I called the
door supply company the new door had not been ordered.
187. After the burglary, the Post Office auditors said that we were short £850. I asked the
auditors to come and justify it as I could only find £30 short, however the auditor
refused to come, he acted like it was too much trouble to come to my branch. The
whole Post Office attitude was that it is your problem you deal with it.
188. I do not think Post Office Lt were honest and fair with us from the beginning.
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189. I would like for it to be over with. I would like to know where all the money went. I do
not want any more local discussion because we postmasters are seen as good guys
again. I do not want it stirring up again.
190. I would not believe anything Post Office Ltd ever do is sincere.
191. I would like to add that since making this statement and after watching other people's
experiences whilst giving evidence at the Horizon IT Inquiry that there were many
levels of hell and despair that Post Office put myself and my family through, which
have resurfaced since watching the other claimants.
192. If it was not the fact that I put in thousands of pounds in cash, loans, savings etc, we
too would have been suspended and ended up bankrupt and or charged with theft
and false accounting. I cannot believe how stupid I was searching for non-existent
losses, believing it was our fault and that Post Office would look after us. When all
they did was walk all over us. I want answers.
STATEMENT OF TRUTH
I believe the contents of this statement to be true.
tS mar Qord
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